Date: 17 June 2014
LYNDAL CURTIS:
On the other side of politics the Federal Opposition is still planning
to oppose the Government's move to scrap the carbon tax and replace it
with its Direct Action plan but the commitment to a Emissions Trading
Scheme may not be one Labor takes to the next election. I spoke to the
Environment Minister Mark Butler a short time ago. If I could start by
asking you, Caucus didn't pass a motion calling effectively for an end
to Labor's support for offshore detention but passed another one. Is
that settling Labor's policy on offshore detention?
MARK BUTLER, SHADOW MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE AND WATER:
As you know we have a long standing convention not to talk about our
internal debates within the Caucus. There's a briefing that's given to
the media. As you know it was a respectful debate and I don't have
anything to add to that.
CURTIS: We know from the briefing what happened, does that mean this issue is settled once and for all?
BUTLER: I
say again, we have a long standing convention that there is a briefing
about internal Caucus meetings and none of the rest of us add to that
briefing.
CURTIS:
If we could go to environment issues this week, what’s called the one
stop shop for environmental approvals, trying to streamline the
different layers of Commonwealth and State Government approvals,
legislation has been debated in Parliament. The Minister said that the
highest level of protection on environment issues would still apply, it
wasn't watering down protection for the environment, is that how you see
it?
BUTLER: No
we don't at all. We see, as a matter of principle, environmental matters
of national environmental significance should always be the province –
the responsibility - of the national government. That's not a party
political thing. Whether it's a Liberal or Labor, Federal or State
Government we're talking about, matters of national environmental
significance, World Heritage properties, nuclear matters, the water
trigger that protects water resources from coal seam gas developments
for example, they should always be the responsibility of the those
Commonwealth parliament.
CURTIS: Don't those laws, the Commonwealth environment laws, still have to be adhered to?
BUTLER: It's
about capacity. It's about having a national perspective. For example,
around the protection of water, these issues cross state boundaries. The
Great Artesian Basin is not conveniently located within one state, the
Murray-Darling Basin is not conveniently located within one state. There
are international dimensions to this, particularly in terms of our
membership of the World Heritage system. These are all responsibilities
that should be held by the national government, not handed over to state
governments. But we also found out when this legislation was released,
handed over to local councils so local councils along the Queensland
coast might end up with legal responsibility to protect the Great
Barrier Reef.
CURTIS:
If I could ask you on an Emissions Trading Scheme, you gave an
interview at the weekend. Is the upshot of your comments that Labor is
no longer committed to emissions trading as the only option to deal with
climate change?
BUTLER: The
only upshot of my interview on the weekend was that we're not announcing
our 2016 policy this week. I don’t think anyone would be surprised
about that. We are in there in the parliament this week and next week
arguing very strongly for an Emissions Trading Scheme because that’s the
best way to drive down pollution.
CURTIS: You did say it's not the only option and you wouldn't lock yourself into the policies of past?
BUTLER:
We're not going to announce our 2016 policy this week. People can be
very confident that our policy in 2016 will be guided by the same
principles, the same core principles that have framed Labor Party policy
in this area now for years. There must be a legal cap on carbon
pollution that reduces over time and is underpinned by a market
mechanism or a market price, and there must also be strong support for
renewable energy. Those principles will frame our policy in 2016 as they
have previous policies for many years but beyond that I'm not going to
get into the position of announcing our 2016 policy this week any more
than we're announcing any other areas of policy.
CURTIS:
But isn’t what you're trying to do, with your votes particularly in the
Senate, trying to lock the Government into what you see as your current
policy, lock the Government into having an Emissions Trading Scheme to
replace the carbon tax when that might not be exactly the mechanism you
plan to take to the next election?
BUTLER: As
I’ve said, we've got core principles, a legal cap on pollution, a market
based mechanism that underpins that cap and strong support for
renewable energy. Those will always be the core principles Labor brings.
On the debate in the parliament, there’s no question that an Emissions
Trading Scheme is the best way to bring down pollution, that's why our
position at the election remains our position now; we should terminate
the carbon tax, and we should move as quickly as possible to an
Emissions Trading Scheme that has that cap on pollution and then lets
business work out the best, the cheapest, the most effective way to
operate.
CURTIS: If it's the best way in 2014 why won't it be the best way in 2016?
BUTLER:
There's a very good chance it will be. It's being adopted in our region
in places like China this week, in South Korea in several months, it
already operates in many markets in the northern hemisphere, the key
principles I outlined will remain Labor principles; a cap, a market
mechanism, support for renewable energy.
CURTIS: What other sort of market mechanism might there be other than an Emissions Trading Scheme?
BUTLER: That
is clearly the scheme being adopted in most jurisdictions around the
world. It is the position we’re adopting right now. I'm not going to get
into the position of announcing the 2016 policy except to say that it
will be framed by core principles that Labor has held for many, many
years in the area of climate change policy.
CURTIS:
I'm just curious because you seemed, to on the weekend, leave options
open but it seems now the options are in fact relatively narrow for what
you might take to the election?
BUTLER: The
details around this, the scope of it, the way in which it interacts with
international developments; for example, the Emissions Trading Scheme
we're arguing now would link with some of our oldest trading partners
like France and Germany and the UK. Quite what the international scene
will be with China developing Emissions Trading Schemes, South Korea our
third largest export partner; a very ambitious conference planned for
next year being driven by the United States and China, against the
resistance of Tony Abbott. These are all things that will move very,
very quickly over the next couple of years, but Labor's core principles
will remain utterly steadfast.
CURTIS: Does Labor remain committed to current the renewable energy targets, there is some debate in the Government about what it does?
BUTLER: This
is a great area of policy success. It is putting downward pressure on
wholesale power prices, it is allowing literally hundreds of thousands
of households to get out of the power system, put rooftop solar panels
that bring down their own power bills, it’s tripled the number of jobs
in the sector, and last year we were - along with China, Germany and the
US - one of the four most attractive places to invest in in the world
in clean energy. So why this Government is attacking renewable energy
policy, given that at the election this was a bipartisan position, is
utterly beyond me. This is a great policy they should get behind.
CURTIS: Thank you very much for your time.
BUTLER: Thank you very much.
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