TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW ON RN BREAKFAST
SHADOW MINISTER FOR ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE AND WATER
REPORTER: Mark Butler, good morning.
BUTLER: Good morning Alison.
REPORTER: Mark Butler, Stephen
Harper is right, isn't it he? No country is going to destroy jobs and
growth in the name of climate action?
BUTLER: Yes, but on the other
hand, the surest way to destroy jobs and growth in the medium and long
term is to do nothing about climate change. We know from all of the
scientific advice, internationally and here in our own country
Australia, that global warming is already having a very significant
impact on our climate and it’s already having an impact on a range of
industries, most notably agriculture, but a range of others as well. So,
there's not a clear choice here on the one hand to do nothing, and save
all the existing jobs and have uninterrupted global growth or, on the
other, to undertake carbon trading schemes. We have to do something. All
of the world’s nations agreed a couple of years ago to limit global
warming to no more than two degrees Celsius and really the question for
Tony Abbott is what action is Australia going to take?
REPORTER: It would appear that
Canada is in lock step with Australia. Stephen Harper says that both
countries are simply being more frank about their position on climate
change. He seems to be suggesting that efforts being undertaken in other
countries are little more than lip service. Could there be something in
that?
BUTLER: Well, no there's not. And,
frankly, I'm not sure where Tony Abbott gets this stuff from sometimes.
He's said over the last 24 hours that the rest of the world is moving
away from carbon trading schemes, when in actual fact the only country
moving away from carbon trading schemes, moving backwards on climate
change, is Australia. The rest of the world is moving forward in a way
they never have before.
REPORTER: We'll get to that in a
moment. But, I'm just intrigued by what Stephen Harper has had to say,
standing up with Tony Abbott in Ottawa. Bill Shorten has called Tony
Abbott a Flat-Earther when it comes to climate action. He says, "Tony
Abbott's flat-earth views are out of touch with Australians and out of
touch with world leaders.' Does this mean Stephen Harper is also a
Flat-Earther?
BUTLER: Well, I haven't paid as
much attention to Stephen Harper's comments over the last few years as I
have to Tony Abbott’s. There's no question in my mind that Tony Abbott
pays lip services to climate change. He tries to be all things to all
people here in Australia and when overseas. The simple fact of the
matter if you examine Tony Abbott's record is that his attitude to
climate change is one of very high scepticism. For that reason, he
doesn't appear committed to take any serious action at all.
REPORTER: But would it be the case
that Stephen Harper may have given Tony Abbott some political cover
when he goes to the White House later this week to talk with President
Obama. You don't want Tony Abbott to shirk the issue when he arrives in
Washington, he now has formed this very strong alliance with the
Canadian Prime Minister, won’t that embolden him when he arrives in DC?
BUTLER: Well, it may. That's a
matter for Tony Abbott. But on the other hand, nations around the world,
particularly senior members of the G20, are gearing up for the next 12
to 18 months to be months of serious action on climate change. I mean,
China and the US, only a couple of months ago, signed a Memorandum of
Understanding recognising the overwhelming scientific consensus on
climate change and the urgent need for action. They're the words of the
US and China, not mine. So, I think Tony Abbott is in a bit of a fool’s
paradise if he thinks this means he’s not going to be under very serious
pressure still, as the Chair of the G20, to include climate change on
the talks this year.
REPORTER: Now, you did mention
that comment that the Prime Minister made in Canada, the direct quote,
"There is no sign – no sign – that trading schemes are increasingly
being adopted. If anything, trading schemes are being discarded." What
do you think the Prime Minister may have been basing that claim on?
BUTLER: Well, frankly, I have no
idea. It's not difficult to find good advice, good information about
carbon trading schemes around the world and if you look at them last
year was a record year. This year carbon trading schemes are continuing
to spread. There are provinces and states in the US and in Canada, where
the Prime Minister will be this week, where carbon trading schemes
continue to be introduced. But, most importantly for Australia, carbon
trading schemes are spreading in our own region. This week, the seventh
ETS – emissions trading scheme – will start in China and our third
largest export partner South Korea starts the second largest carbon
trading scheme in the world in the a matter of six months. So to pretend
that this is something that is not moving forward really is quite
disingenuous on the part of the Prime Minister.
REPORTER: And you want climate
change to be on the G20 agenda, but Tony Abbott has said the challenge
for Australia as hosts will be to find the things that unite us, not the
things that divide us. Does that suggest that climate change is still
off, not on?
BUTLER: Well, it would appear to
be the case, but I think if people examine the comments of the leaders
of most of the members of the G20, it's quite clear that the rest of the
G20 want to talk about climate change. Senior countries like the US and
China and many others are committed to the talks this year and next
year leading into the Paris Conference later in 2015 being very
ambitious.
REPORTER: But even though the G20's primarily an economic forum?
BUTLER: Well, climate change is an
economic issue. It’s a security issue, according to the Pentagon and
many other security agencies around the world, and it’s an economic
issue because it will very much determine the path of jobs and economic
growth over the course of this century. So, Tony Abbott is simply wrong
to pretend that climate change is only an environmental issue. This is
an issue that touches on everything.
REPORTER: Mark Butler, if we could
finish on whaling. You're also Labor’s Environment Spokesman. What
we've learned overnight is that Japan wants to restart the annual whale
hunt in the Southern Ocean and it’s come from the Prime Minister Shinzo
Abe, no less. Do you fear that the cull could be back on?
BUTLER: Well, we'll look at this
statement very closely. We were heartened by Japan's initial response to
the Court decision that they would respect the decision of the Court.
REPORTER: But now it appears to be flouting the decision by the International Court of Justice.
BUTLER: We'd be concerned if that were the case. But we'll examine this statement very closely before making a definitive comment.
REPORTER: Is there any punitive action that the ICJ can do to stop a resumption?
BUTLER: Well, look, we'd have to
have a look at the statement and the degree to which it complies with
the Court decision from a couple of months ago but we'd certainly call
on Japan to continue their constructive response that they initially
made to the Court decision.
REPORTER: Mark Butler, we'll have to leave it there. Thanks for joining RN Breakfast.
BUTLER: Thanks Alison.
ENDS
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