SENATOR THE HON PENNY WONG
LABOR SENATOR FOR SOUTH AUSTRALIA
TRANSCRIPT
17 June 2014
E&OE - PROOF ONLY
JAYES: Senator Penny Wong the debt levy legislation is poised to pass through the Senate. Does this remain the only piece of crucial Budget legislation that Labor will help pass?
WONG: We will make our judgment on Budget bills in the usual way, but I will say this: what was very, quite extraordinary actually, about that Budget bill is Government Senators speaking against it. I mean this was the first Budget bill of Tony Abbott’s first Budget and there was a backbench breakout on it. We saw Senator Macdonald and Senator Bernardi both indicating their opposition to their own Government’s Budget bills.
JAYES: But Labor isn’t that happy about supporting the debt levy either but at least see this as a bit of a necessity to pay down debt. But what I am confused about is, it has been a couple of months now since the Budget has been handed down. The Opposition has had plenty of time to look at the other measures, what do you mean by the normal process? Are you still holding your cards close to your chest in terms of negotiations? What are you happy to negotiate on?
WONG: We are not the Government. We are the Opposition. We have outlined a range of positions through Chris Bowen, the Shadow Treasurer as well as Tony Burke, the Shadow Finance Minister, about how we’ll approach various bills. But let’s remember we deal with bills as they come forward and look at the detail. In this bill we did have some concerns about the design but we thought on balance it was appropriate for us to support it.
What I would say though, and it is important to understand this, we had a couple of Government backbenchers speaking out against the first Budget bill of the Abbott Government. I think the question needs to be asked, if the Abbott backbench don’t support this Budget, why should the Australian people?
JAYES: The carbon tax repeal legislation will be introduced after July, so when the new Senate is ushered in. Will Labor still hold to that promise at the election to repeal the carbon tax?
WONG: We support an emissions trading scheme, we made that…
JAYES: I understand that.
WONG: …we made that very clear and we support a legal cap on pollution, a market mechanism to work out the cheapest way of reducing Australia’s pollution. That is our position. It has been our position for a long time.
JAYES: But as you pointed out, you are not in the Government, you are the Opposition…
WONG: I’ve noticed that.
JAYES: …and you have only an opportunity to vote on legislation that is available to you. So how do you marry those two? You want to get rid of the carbon tax but you want an ETS, but those options aren’t available. The one option that is available to you though is to repeal the carbon tax.
WONG: What we have said very consistently is we are not in the business of allowing there to be no limit on Australia’s pollution. What we want is an emissions trading scheme. We want a cap on pollution, Bill Shorten made that very clear today, that is our consistent position.
JAYES: But Mark Butler did say yesterday that this meeting in Paris in September of next year will be crucial. So will you reconsider an ETS? Will you perhaps look at a cap and trade scheme that would only be applied to transport and electricity? Are you ruling that out?
WONG: We support an emissions trading scheme, sometimes called a cap and trade scheme. But obviously between now and the next election we will need to consult on the detail of that policy. We will need to have a look at the international situation that certainly is what Mark was referencing. But I fundamentally…
JAYES: So your principle is an ETS?
WONG: Correct.
JAYES: But you’re happy to tinker with it.
WONG: We will need to, in the normal process in the lead up to the next election, to look at what’s happening internationally and consult with the community and with business, but fundamentally, as Bill Shorten said very clearly today, Labor supports an Emissions Trading Scheme. I think he said we won’t shirk from one because we understand how important it is.
JAYES: Senator you were the Climate Change Minister.
WONG: Yes I was.
JAYES: Sorry to interrupt you…
WONG: I was the Climate Change Minister when the Greens and some of the Liberal Party including Senator Bernardi voted together, so I remember that.
JAYES: There you go. But this has caused the Labor Party so much angst over two Prime Ministers. Do you have any nervousness going into the next election promising such a scheme where the world has not moved in exactly the direction they thought it would at Copenhagen?
WONG: I have just come back from China, and you are already seeing much of what China is doing, yielding real results and China is looking at what more it needs to do. So I don’t agree with part of the premise of your question.
JAYES: Sure, but not everyone’s moving towards an ETS, the way Obama moved does somewhat…
WONG: Because he couldn’t get a cap and trade system through the Congress. But you asked me if I was nervous, look I don’t think in politics things that are worth doing are generally easy. Things that are worth doing are usually hard. And climate is a difficult policy area and we have to stay true to what we think is the right thing to do for Australians now, for our economy now and into the future.
JAYES: Just back to your current portfolio, are you concerned about the change in language the Government has put forward from occupied to disputed territories and how that might affect trade, agriculture in particular?
WONG: It appears what has happened here is that the Attorney-General in a Senate hearing has freelanced and announced a change in Australia’s foreign policy apparently without reference to the Foreign Minister or the Cabinet. It’s a pretty extraordinary frolic. And I think if I were an exporter – and I am aware of some of the reports that you have referenced – if I were an exporter and my markets were affected in any way by George Brandis’ frolic, I reckon I would be pretty annoyed.
JAYES: Have you sought meetings with the Palestinian representatives? And they have made representations to DFAT, they will be having meetings with Julie Bishop this week. But have you sought any meetings with them?
WONG: I think that there are a number of people representing the Palestinian people in Parliament this week and I certainly will be meeting with some of them, just as you know I meet with people from the Jewish Affairs Council and other groups.
JAYES: The Government points out that they haven’t changed their policy in relation to Israel. They’ve just tinkered with the language. Is that fair enough though?
WONG: As I think Tanya Plibersek our spokesperson has said this language has been pretty consistent over many years.
JAYES: If I remember Julia Gillard in the last Government also wanted to vote against giving Palestine observer status and that was overruled.
WONG: What has occurred here is a Minister outside his own portfolio has unilaterally announced a change in the Australia’s foreign policy position, apparently without reference to the Cabinet or apparently without reference to the Foreign Minister. It was a frolic and I think it deserves to be seen as such.
JAYES: Senator Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Good to be with you.
ENDS
JAYES: Senator Penny Wong the debt levy legislation is poised to pass through the Senate. Does this remain the only piece of crucial Budget legislation that Labor will help pass?
WONG: We will make our judgment on Budget bills in the usual way, but I will say this: what was very, quite extraordinary actually, about that Budget bill is Government Senators speaking against it. I mean this was the first Budget bill of Tony Abbott’s first Budget and there was a backbench breakout on it. We saw Senator Macdonald and Senator Bernardi both indicating their opposition to their own Government’s Budget bills.
JAYES: But Labor isn’t that happy about supporting the debt levy either but at least see this as a bit of a necessity to pay down debt. But what I am confused about is, it has been a couple of months now since the Budget has been handed down. The Opposition has had plenty of time to look at the other measures, what do you mean by the normal process? Are you still holding your cards close to your chest in terms of negotiations? What are you happy to negotiate on?
WONG: We are not the Government. We are the Opposition. We have outlined a range of positions through Chris Bowen, the Shadow Treasurer as well as Tony Burke, the Shadow Finance Minister, about how we’ll approach various bills. But let’s remember we deal with bills as they come forward and look at the detail. In this bill we did have some concerns about the design but we thought on balance it was appropriate for us to support it.
What I would say though, and it is important to understand this, we had a couple of Government backbenchers speaking out against the first Budget bill of the Abbott Government. I think the question needs to be asked, if the Abbott backbench don’t support this Budget, why should the Australian people?
JAYES: The carbon tax repeal legislation will be introduced after July, so when the new Senate is ushered in. Will Labor still hold to that promise at the election to repeal the carbon tax?
WONG: We support an emissions trading scheme, we made that…
JAYES: I understand that.
WONG: …we made that very clear and we support a legal cap on pollution, a market mechanism to work out the cheapest way of reducing Australia’s pollution. That is our position. It has been our position for a long time.
JAYES: But as you pointed out, you are not in the Government, you are the Opposition…
WONG: I’ve noticed that.
JAYES: …and you have only an opportunity to vote on legislation that is available to you. So how do you marry those two? You want to get rid of the carbon tax but you want an ETS, but those options aren’t available. The one option that is available to you though is to repeal the carbon tax.
WONG: What we have said very consistently is we are not in the business of allowing there to be no limit on Australia’s pollution. What we want is an emissions trading scheme. We want a cap on pollution, Bill Shorten made that very clear today, that is our consistent position.
JAYES: But Mark Butler did say yesterday that this meeting in Paris in September of next year will be crucial. So will you reconsider an ETS? Will you perhaps look at a cap and trade scheme that would only be applied to transport and electricity? Are you ruling that out?
WONG: We support an emissions trading scheme, sometimes called a cap and trade scheme. But obviously between now and the next election we will need to consult on the detail of that policy. We will need to have a look at the international situation that certainly is what Mark was referencing. But I fundamentally…
JAYES: So your principle is an ETS?
WONG: Correct.
JAYES: But you’re happy to tinker with it.
WONG: We will need to, in the normal process in the lead up to the next election, to look at what’s happening internationally and consult with the community and with business, but fundamentally, as Bill Shorten said very clearly today, Labor supports an Emissions Trading Scheme. I think he said we won’t shirk from one because we understand how important it is.
JAYES: Senator you were the Climate Change Minister.
WONG: Yes I was.
JAYES: Sorry to interrupt you…
WONG: I was the Climate Change Minister when the Greens and some of the Liberal Party including Senator Bernardi voted together, so I remember that.
JAYES: There you go. But this has caused the Labor Party so much angst over two Prime Ministers. Do you have any nervousness going into the next election promising such a scheme where the world has not moved in exactly the direction they thought it would at Copenhagen?
WONG: I have just come back from China, and you are already seeing much of what China is doing, yielding real results and China is looking at what more it needs to do. So I don’t agree with part of the premise of your question.
JAYES: Sure, but not everyone’s moving towards an ETS, the way Obama moved does somewhat…
WONG: Because he couldn’t get a cap and trade system through the Congress. But you asked me if I was nervous, look I don’t think in politics things that are worth doing are generally easy. Things that are worth doing are usually hard. And climate is a difficult policy area and we have to stay true to what we think is the right thing to do for Australians now, for our economy now and into the future.
JAYES: Just back to your current portfolio, are you concerned about the change in language the Government has put forward from occupied to disputed territories and how that might affect trade, agriculture in particular?
WONG: It appears what has happened here is that the Attorney-General in a Senate hearing has freelanced and announced a change in Australia’s foreign policy apparently without reference to the Foreign Minister or the Cabinet. It’s a pretty extraordinary frolic. And I think if I were an exporter – and I am aware of some of the reports that you have referenced – if I were an exporter and my markets were affected in any way by George Brandis’ frolic, I reckon I would be pretty annoyed.
JAYES: Have you sought meetings with the Palestinian representatives? And they have made representations to DFAT, they will be having meetings with Julie Bishop this week. But have you sought any meetings with them?
WONG: I think that there are a number of people representing the Palestinian people in Parliament this week and I certainly will be meeting with some of them, just as you know I meet with people from the Jewish Affairs Council and other groups.
JAYES: The Government points out that they haven’t changed their policy in relation to Israel. They’ve just tinkered with the language. Is that fair enough though?
WONG: As I think Tanya Plibersek our spokesperson has said this language has been pretty consistent over many years.
JAYES: If I remember Julia Gillard in the last Government also wanted to vote against giving Palestine observer status and that was overruled.
WONG: What has occurred here is a Minister outside his own portfolio has unilaterally announced a change in the Australia’s foreign policy position, apparently without reference to the Cabinet or apparently without reference to the Foreign Minister. It was a frolic and I think it deserves to be seen as such.
JAYES: Senator Penny Wong, thank you.
WONG: Good to be with you.
ENDS
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