Syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks join Judy Woodruff to discuss the week in politics, including congressional negotiations, President-elect Biden's cabinet picks and the U.S. Supreme Court's decision on Texas's election challenges.
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Judy Woodruff:
And now to the analysis of Shields and Brooks. That's syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks.
Hello to both of you.
So, let's begin with the news this evening, the Supreme Court saying that they do not have standing to take this case filed by the state of Texas challenging, David, the election results in four states that voted for Joe Biden over Donald Trump.
This is a case, gotten a lot of attention — or the suit, I should say — because there were 17 states, many states' attorneys general signed on, two-thirds of the Republican members of the House.
But now the Supreme Court has thrown it out, with dissent, we should say, by Justices Alito and Thomas.
But, David, what does this say about the state of our politics right now with regard to this election result?
David Brooks:
Well, the court system has hung in there.
And I should pointed out all three Trump-appointed justices sided with the majority on this one. And it's simply written in the Constitution that state legislatures get to control their own elections. And the state of Texas doesn't get to tell Michigan and Pennsylvania and other states whether their elections are firm or not.
It was just an outrageous suit from the beginning, one of the desperate ploys Trump has tried. The shameful thing, of course, is that 126 House Republicans signed onto it and a bunch of attorney generals. It's a party that has just lost any touch with democracy.
Somebody said on Twitter today, Trumpianity is a very strange religion. And, fortunately, unlike the legislative branch on the Republican side, the judicial branch has stayed true and faithful to the obvious meaning of the Constitution.
Judy Woodruff:
Mark, as you watch this drama unfold, what do you make of it at this point, now that the Supreme Court has weighed in?
Mark Shields:
Well, I think we're in the final chapter, Judy. At least I hope so.
I don't — I don't ever ask that people on the other side agree with me. I do ask that you believe in what you say, in the position you take. And this was an example of, I think, base hypocrisy on the part of House Republicans.
They — there are 153 safe Republican House seats in the House of Representatives, that is, that Republicans control or dominant in. And what they're — they're terrified, the members there, are a primary, being primaried by a Donald Trump supporter who said, you didn't stand with the president.
And the Republicans are in a terrible position at this point. They desperately want the Trump voters, the 11 million he brought in over four years ago, for example. But they don't want Donald Trump. They desperately want Donald Trump gone.
And so — but the last thing in the world they want to do is in any way incur his wrath, for fear he will do to them what he did to Mark Sanford or Jeff Sessions in Alabama, and that is punish them for not being 110 percent Trumpist.
Judy Woodruff:
But, in the process, David, are they doing damage to our democracy?
David Brooks:
Immense damage.
I mean, they're calling an election for millions and millions of people into question. As we have talked about before, 77 percent of Trump backers think it was a fraudulent election. So, where do we go going forward?
They're trying to not alienate Trump voters, but the 126 House members, including people like Kevin McCarthy, leaders, are basically telling his story. And they're telling his comeback story.
They're giving every pretext for him to run again in 2024 and continue to make this Donald Trump's party. And so if they wanted to get rid of Donald Trump, this was, in my view, the worst way to do it, because they have signed on to the gospel. and now they're more or less stuck with it.
Judy Woodruff:
Mark, do you see long-lasting damage here?
Mark Shields:
Yes.
Judy Woodruff:
Is this something that the country can get through?
Mark Shields:
Yes, beyond the politics of it, Judy, the position taken is undemocratic. It's hypocritical. It's just indefensible, and when you're talking about elections.
I mean, I would assume that all Republican House members from Michigan and Wisconsin and Georgia and Pennsylvania who signed on to this suit would summarily resign from the House, because they're saying that they were elected in a criminal election.
It's certainly this illegality that they allege out of thin air didn't — wasn't limited just to the presidential vote. So, I just find it beyond — when I say that want the Trump voters without Donald Trump, they can't wait for Donald Trump to be gone.
I mean, how they quiver in fear about him. They just — they're terrified of him. It's not born of affection or anything of the sort or a high regard. It's born of rank fear. And that has to be demeaning for every Republican in the House who signed on.
Liz Cheney, the third member of the House leadership from Wyoming, did not, and good for her.
Judy Woodruff:
David, let me ask you both about something else the Congress is not doing, in this instance, and that's a finding a way to come up with relief, help for people suffering in this pandemic.
It's been months and months. They have come down to the wire. They figured out a way to fund the government another few days, but they still don't have COVID relief. What is the holdup here? And do you see them getting through this?
David Brooks:
Well, this is a foundational problem, too.
If faith in God collapses, then the church collapses. If faith in our institutions and each other collapses, then the nation collapses. And so undermining the election is one piece of that.
But unwilling — the unwillingness to recognize the legitimacy of views on the other side is another piece of it. And we have had five months of people unwilling to recognize the legitimacy of their views and come to meet them halfway.
We finally last week had a legislature behave like it's supposed to behave, where we had eight senators who created a compromise, along with members of the Problem Solvers Caucus in the House. And they created a very reasonable and, to me, on the merits, a very good compromise on how to get COVID relief.
To their great credit, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer said, OK, this is our framework. Mitch McConnell won't go there. And so he's not willing to do the work of legislation. He says that their — that compromise will not work with Republicans.
Well, Mitch McConnell's position won't work with Democrats. So, that's what politics exists for. And so it's just another piece of a fundamentally broken political system.
Judy Woodruff:
Mark, do you see a way through this?
Mark Shields:
I do, Judy.
I think — it's unthinkable to me that they will not pass a COVID relief bill. I mean, we're talking about Americans on the eve of Christmas without the resources to feed their children, to heat their homes, to pay their rent.
We're not talking about some giveaway to anybody. We're not talking about a major stimulus. We're talking about human survival and human dignity. And I just can't believe that the Republicans, Mitch McConnell, who is threatened by this, they're all consumed with the February (sic) 5 election in Georgia.
And if you're Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue running in those special Senate elections, and you have to stand up there and defend that the Republican Senate was the stumbling block to sending relief to American families in desperate need at Christmastime? I don't think so.
So, I think that, finally, urgency and political survival will intervene.
What threatens Mitch McConnell, the Republican majority leader, is, a leader has to be able to deliver his troops. Right now, he's got a problem, because he doesn't have a majority of his caucus on this side.
And David's right about the bipartisan group meeting, but they represent a threat to leadership. And I give Speaker Pelosi credit for accepting the act of the bipartisan negotiation.
But Mitch McConnell — if the leader is going to be held hostage by bipartisan groups negotiating a fair deal, then, oh, my goodness, there goes your power, because, in Washington, the perception power is power. If I think you have power, you do. And if enough people think you have power, then you do.
And once there are doubts about your power — and I think that's where McConnell finds himself right now.
Judy Woodruff:
David, in the time we have left, I do want to ask you about president-elect Biden.
He's been introducing more of the top people in his administration, the people he wants to serve. I guess the one who's getting the most criticism or attention that has been critical is Lloyd Austin, the retired Army general, to be secretary of defense. But there are others.
It's interesting, a number of familiar faces from the Obama administration. What do you make of the — some of the senior picks he's made so far?
David Brooks:
Well, Joe Biden has picked people he really knows, people he knows well. He spent a lot of time with Lloyd Austin in Iraq when he was vice president. He's picked Denis McDonough for the VA, who, by the way, is one of the most fundamentally decent people I have ever covered in public life.
These are, by and large, almost entirely, very good people, but very familiar, Susan Rice over now at the domestic side. And so they are people he knows, he trusts who will be ready on day one. And so it's — it is really Obama three, in that sense.
I also share some of the concerns with Lloyd Austin, not for anything having to do with Lloyd Austin and his performance. But there's a reason we have this rule, this tradition, and also a rule, that you don't have generals switching right over to the defense secretary. It's about civilian control.
It's about picking people who have distance from the current military brass. And that is a very solid and sensible rule. And in the Jim Mattis case, where we also had to get an exemption, that struck me as an extreme circumstance where getting Jim Mattis in there was so important, it was worth breaking the rule.
Now there must be a lot of very qualified people, like Michele Flournoy, who could be secretary defense. I don't quite see why we run this risk of traversing what is a sensible principle.
Judy Woodruff:
And, Mark, what is your assessment of some of these Biden — some of the main Biden picks so far?
Mark Shields:
Well, Judy, I think, in dramatic contrast to his predecessor, Joe Biden was knocked by his political opponents for having spent 47 years in Washington.
He knows these people. He's worked with them. He knows their strengths and their weaknesses. If they turn out to be lemons, it's because Joe Biden picked them, not because they were imposed upon him. And so I really think that the strength of the nominees is that Joe Biden certifies them, validates them. And that's the accountability of a presidential leader.
And on the whole, I remained impressed by them. I would point out that any money that's left over from the stimulus, the original bailout on COVID, will be in the stewardship of Janet Yellen, as secretary of Treasury. And I think there's somebody who will spend it wisely and well and quite humanely.
Judy Woodruff:
And on that note, we thank you both, Mark Shields, David Brooks.
Have a great weekend.
Mark Shields:
Thank you.
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